[OOTB-hive] [ADDONS] What do we want from an Order-managed addonlisting?

Daren Firminger daren at digcat.com
Mon Aug 29 13:59:39 BST 2016


Tuesday 1730 good for us too. cheers


On 29/08/2016 10:42, Tahir Malik wrote:
> Tuesday 1730 is fine.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Mark Goodnight
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 5:20PM
> *To:* Axel Faust
> *Cc:* Ootb-hive
> *Subject:* Re: [OOTB-hive] [ADDONS] What do we want from an 
> Order-managed addonlisting?
> Count me in for option A
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Goodnight, PMP, ERMp
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 09:18, Axel Faust <axel.faust.g at googlemail.com 
> <mailto:axel.faust.g at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the feedback. Considering that Jeff is in a timezone 
>> that is consistently running behind, and Francesco (likely others 
>> too) wants to minimize impact during work hours, we should aim for a 
>> time slot similar to or later than TTL / Office Hours.
>>
>> I am proposing Tuesday the 30th at 1530 UTC, which would be 1730 for 
>> all / most contintental Europeans and 1030 for our resident Texan. If 
>> there aren't too many vetoes until tomorrow, I'll set up a hangout. 
>> (Counting respondents for option A we are currently one below the 
>> limit of 10 for a hangout, and I really don't expect a sudden uptick.)
>>
>> On 23 August 2016 at 11:24, Jean-Christophe KERMAGORET 
>> <jckermagoret at bluexml.com <mailto:jckermagoret at bluexml.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hello,
>>     I can do either or both options but I would prefer a).
>>
>>     When could it be?
>>
>>     Tuesday or Wednesday next week for example? What are the most
>>     usable hours with time lag?
>>
>>     Jc
>>
>>     Envoyé de mon iPhone
>>
>>     Le 17 août 2016 à 13:58, Axel Faust <axel.faust.g at googlemail.com
>>     <mailto:axel.faust.g at googlemail.com>> a écrit :
>>
>>>     After an initial stream of replies, this topic has fallen silent
>>>     again.
>>>     It has become clear that we won't come up with a plan via any
>>>     form of async communication (regardless of mailing list or any
>>>     "new" tool). I feel this needs some form of face-to-face
>>>     communication / collaboration over a defined amount of time to
>>>     work / argue this out and either come up with a common
>>>     denominator plan or a redraw of what ADDONS can / wants to be.
>>>
>>>     I would like to ask everyone:
>>>
>>>     a) Would you be willing / available to do some kind of web
>>>     session / web meeting in the next couple of weeks to discuss
>>>     ADDON goals?
>>>     b) Would you be willing to use the next Alfresco Global Virtual
>>>     Hack-a-thon (23rd of September) to discuss / finalize ADDON
>>>     goals and work on an initial sets of addons to be listed /
>>>     reviewed / whatever we decide to come up with?
>>>
>>>     Regards
>>>     Axel
>>>
>>>     On 25 July 2016 at 20:33, Axel Faust
>>>     <axel.faust.g at googlemail.com
>>>     <mailto:axel.faust.g at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         First of all: Sorry, I forgot to reply to the list in my
>>>         response to Tahir. I still have to get used to using Google
>>>         Mail more regularly now.. Thanks Tahir for including that in
>>>         your counter-response.
>>>
>>>         "So in my personal case if the plan doesn't change we still
>>>         hold on to something we thought 2 years ago and didn't
>>>         provide the result we wanted."
>>>
>>>         This very thread is intended to come up with a plan (or THE
>>>         plan) that we can work with, which may be very different
>>>         from the old one from 2 years ago.
>>>         And forgive me for saying, but "first provide result and
>>>         then look on fine-tuning them" was essentially what I was
>>>         trying to kickstart with my draft + reviews and see how well
>>>         that turned out. So how do we go about that this doesn't
>>>         happend again?
>>>
>>>         If there are other people willing to start without a plan,
>>>         do stuff and come back and refine it later, I would be very
>>>         happy to see that succeed. Given previous experience, I have
>>>         my doubts and would wait for it to bear the first fruits,
>>>         before I risk spending my time...
>>>
>>>         Kicking the entire ADDONS business to the curb and killing
>>>         any intention to come up with an addon listing is a very
>>>         real consideration already discussed on the board, and I
>>>         personally don't have any intention as well to continue with
>>>         something that just won't work. So I hope there are other
>>>         people interested in this so this becomes a real discussion
>>>         about plan / "what to do", and desn't remain a
>>>         back-and-forth between Tahir and myself...
>>>
>>>         On 25 July 2016 at 20:03, Tahir Malik
>>>         <tahir.malik at contezza.nl <mailto:tahir.malik at contezza.nl>>
>>>         wrote:
>>>
>>>             I don't think “getting our act together” is working at
>>>             this moment. So probably our plans aren't suitable for
>>>             us to work with, in this case I'm clearly referring to
>>>             myself.
>>>
>>>             So in my personal case if the plan doesn't change we
>>>             still hold on to something we thought 2 years ago and
>>>             didn't provide the result we wanted.
>>>
>>>             For me personally this would mean 2 things:
>>>
>>>             1.Get everyone in our team accepting that we need to
>>>             change the way we work and maybe first provide result
>>>             and then look on fine-tuning them
>>>
>>>             2.Leave the Addons team and start a new one to still
>>>             valuable contribute to the community
>>>
>>>             I have no personal issues with anyone of you 😊, but
>>>             this just doesn't seem to work for me and I'm being
>>>             honest and hopefully it's respected.
>>>
>>>
>>>             Tahir Malik
>>>             Sent from Outlook Mail for Windows 10 phone
>>>
>>>             *From: *Axel Faust <mailto:axel.faust.g at googlemail.com>
>>>             *Sent: *25 July 2016 17:26
>>>             *To: *Tahir Malik <mailto:tahir.malik at contezza.nl>
>>>             *Subject: *Re: [OOTB-hive] [ADDONS] What do we want from
>>>             an Order-managed addonlisting?
>>>
>>>             You may already be jumping ahead to the inclusion of
>>>             addons in Honeycomb, which isn't necessarily the same as
>>>             including them in an Order-managed listing (which would
>>>             be just on our web page with potentially different kinds
>>>             of badges differentiating "self-certified" from "reviewed").
>>>
>>>             "First things first": Reach an agreement on what we
>>>             actually want from addon listing and how we want to get
>>>             there, to have a sustainable process before we exhaust /
>>>             frustrate ourselves in uncoordinated actions.
>>>
>>>             ADDONS never had a problem with suggesting addons for
>>>             inclusion in either the issue tracker or the wiki page
>>>             you linked. I had already merged the two together to
>>>             form a backlog
>>>             (https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/wiki/Addon-review-schedule
>>>             <https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/wiki/Addon-review-schedule>)
>>>             of addons to be reviewed. But unfortunately, there was
>>>             never any real effort on reviewing these.
>>>             Why would we need an "updated list of rules" when we
>>>             never really had any formal rules except for a draft?
>>>             (which by the way includes a provision for source code
>>>             to be accessible, but leaves it open in what form)
>>>
>>>             One result of the discussion in this thread could be the
>>>             definition of pre-conditions for an addon to be
>>>             considered for inclusion in a Honeycomb distribution.
>>>             This would obviously involve DISTRO in terms of how we
>>>             want to provide Honeycomb (tieing into the Honeycomb
>>>             vision thread Jeff started). But I'd like for ADDONS to
>>>             "get our act together" and finally come up with a review
>>>             / listing process that all aggree on and actually do the
>>>             potentially boring, but necessary work of processing all
>>>             those addon suggestions...
>>>
>>>             Jeff's suggestion was that "self-signed" would mean the
>>>             addon author has reviewed her addon herself based on the
>>>             criteria catalogue we define.
>>>             At that point there would potentially be very little
>>>             verification / review on our part (except the really
>>>             simple stuff, like license / source access / release
>>>             bundling) and it might be flagged in our listing as such
>>>             ("developer assures she complies with best practices but
>>>             YMMV"). This "self-signed" self-registration of an addon
>>>             could also act as our input funnel for a more thorough
>>>             review, before we put our "stamp of approval" on it.
>>>             Such an addon could then be reviewed by DISTRO for
>>>             inclusion (which could be a different level in our
>>>             "stamp of approval" collection).
>>>
>>>             On 25 July 2016 at 16:47, Tahir Malik
>>>             <tahir.malik at contezza.nl
>>>             <mailto:tahir.malik at contezza.nl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Okay... still some things are unclear right now.
>>>
>>>                 First things first, we need an updated list of addons:
>>>                 - https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/issues/1
>>>                 <https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/issues/1>
>>>                 --> haven't been updated since october 2014
>>>                 -
>>>                 https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/wiki/Candidates-of-our-favorite-free-open-source-add-ons
>>>                 <https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/wiki/Candidates-of-our-favorite-free-open-source-add-ons>
>>>                 --> october 2015
>>>                 - Probably update the wiki of 2015 and merge those
>>>                 together
>>>                 - https://github.com/share-extras/
>>>                 <https://github.com/share-extras/> --> Include all
>>>                 of them updated since 2015?
>>>                 - What do we do with the Hackaton(s) list(s)? Are
>>>                 some of them ready to be included in the Honeycomb
>>>                 edition?
>>>
>>>                 We need an updated list of rules on how we include
>>>                 "self-signed" Addons.
>>>                 - Is having the code on github a must? I've seen
>>>                 multiple 'cool' addons which aren't on github, but
>>>                 are 'free' to use as-is
>>>
>>>                 Cause these aren't addon's we've tested I wouldn't
>>>                 suggest just supplying them with no way of disabling
>>>                 them if needed by a user.
>>>                 So DISTRO guys is there a way to disable certain
>>>                 addons on install?
>>>                 We should have a configurable list of
>>>                 enabled/disabled addon's on installation or creating
>>>                 a bundle/image.
>>>
>>>                 *From:*Douglas C. R. Paes
>>>                 *Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2016 3:20AM
>>>                 *To:* Jeff Potts, Tahir Malik
>>>                 *Cc:* Ootb-hive
>>>                 *Subject:* Re: [OOTB-hive] [ADDONS] What do we want
>>>                 from an Order-managed addon listing?
>>>
>>>                 I liked the self certified add-on idea.
>>>
>>>                 Em qui, 21 de jul de 2016 13:30, Jeff Potts
>>>                 <jeffpotts01 at gmail.com
>>>                 <mailto:jeffpotts01 at gmail.com>> escreveu:
>>>
>>>                     One more thing...
>>>
>>>                     The process I described sets up a simple
>>>                     hierarchy of add-ons:
>>>
>>>                     Un-trusted or Self-published: Add-ons that are
>>>                     freely-available in the wild, on GitHub, on
>>>                     addons.alfresco.com
>>>                     <http://addons.alfresco.com>, etc.
>>>
>>>                     Self-certified: Add-ons that the owner says meet
>>>                     all of the "must" items on the OOTB Add-ons Best
>>>                     Practices Checklist
>>>
>>>                     OOTB Approved: Add-ons that the Order of the Bee
>>>                     have agreed by voting that an Add-on does indeed
>>>                     meet all of the must items.
>>>
>>>                     Jeff
>>>
>>>                     On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Jeff Potts
>>>                     <jeffpotts01 at gmail.com
>>>                     <mailto:jeffpotts01 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         I don't think anyone is proposing that the
>>>                         order has to test or fix any add-on.
>>>
>>>                         What is being proposed is that we have some
>>>                         sort of process for vetting add-ons, and
>>>                         Axel is pointing out that simply having a
>>>                         list hasn't been enough. It requires
>>>                         volunteers to actually look at each add-on
>>>                         and evaluate it against the objective
>>>                         criteria Axel has compiled.
>>>
>>>                         I think what has been lacking are volunteers
>>>                         to do that work and a prioritized list of
>>>                         add-ons that need to be vetted.
>>>
>>>                         Perhaps people who own those add-ons should
>>>                         be the ones to make a first pass at the
>>>                         criteria. Have them self-evaluate. Then they
>>>                         can be the one to submit their add-on to the
>>>                         community with a "self-certification" that
>>>                         it meets the criteria. The group can then
>>>                         spot-check their favorite "must" items and
>>>                         vote +1/-1 on including the add-on. A down
>>>                         vote due to the failure to meet a "must"
>>>                         item must be addressed, then the submitter
>>>                         can request again.
>>>
>>>                         This hopefully reduces the burden on the
>>>                         addons committee and automatically narrows
>>>                         the list of add-ons to those who are
>>>                         motivated enough to do their own check
>>>                         against the list and hopefully make
>>>                         improvements in their code.
>>>
>>>                         If we do a good job communicating the value
>>>                         of being an OOTB-vetted add-on but an add-on
>>>                         owner still doesn't think it is worth the
>>>                         effort to be listed, that probably means
>>>                         they aren't invested enough in that project.
>>>                         And if that's the case, we don't really want
>>>                         their add-on on this list. And if it's a
>>>                         good add-on that has simply been abandoned,
>>>                         some other community member can fork it,
>>>                         self-certify it, and submit it.
>>>
>>>                         Jeff
>>>
>>>                         On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Tahir Malik
>>>                         <tahir.malik at contezza.nl
>>>                         <mailto:tahir.malik at contezza.nl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                             Hi Axel,
>>>
>>>                             I want to propose a different setup for
>>>                             our Addons community.
>>>                             Instead of thoroughly testing other
>>>                             people's code and fixing it where needed
>>>                             we should add all the (functional)
>>>                             working Addons in the edition and fix
>>>                             the addons when they seem to have a problem.
>>>                             This could eather be in the github
>>>                             issues or we forward the issues to the
>>>                             rightfull addon's party and help them
>>>                             fix it.
>>>
>>>                             So what you'll get is that instead of
>>>                             having 3 addons, you'll have at least 15
>>>                             addon's which will definitely have more
>>>                             value than what we currently have.
>>>
>>>                             And I think we should next to Addons
>>>                             also add Patches to the list. I've
>>>                             created multiple patches in the past
>>>                             (and still do) on community and we
>>>                             should just bluntly add them and take
>>>                             the responsibility to fix them if needed.
>>>                             If too much issues with them, discard them.
>>>
>>>                             So the goal is exactly the same, only
>>>                             the approach it different and you'll
>>>                             have more result in less time and
>>>                             hopefully will have a compellingly more
>>>                             valuable honeycomb edition than we now
>>>                             have at the moment :).
>>>
>>>                             To put this further we should have a
>>>                             pre-req list for these addons:
>>>                             - Should be running on at least one
>>>                             client production system
>>>                             - We should have at least tested the
>>>                             addon functionally
>>>                             - etc.
>>>
>>>                             The same for Pathes and we need to make
>>>                             sure that we can supply the
>>>                             Addons/Patches on different Alfresco
>>>                             Versions.
>>>                             So the puppet/docker config should keep
>>>                             a list for each Alfresco version.
>>>
>>>                             Next to this I want to in the future let
>>>                             our team create Addons, that could be 1
>>>                             fully new addons we decide (let's say in
>>>                             the hackaton) or 2 pickup half working
>>>                             addons from the community and make it work.
>>>
>>>                             Best regards,
>>>
>>>                             Contezza
>>>
>>>                             *Tahir Shazad Malik*
>>>
>>>                             *email*
>>>
>>>                             	
>>>
>>>                             tahir.malik at contezza.nl
>>>                             <mailto:tahir.malik at contezza.nl>
>>>
>>>                             *mobile*
>>>
>>>                             	
>>>
>>>                             +31 (0)6 14 77 50 82
>>>
>>>                             *office*
>>>
>>>                             	
>>>
>>>                             +31 (0)848 68 89 02
>>>
>>>                             *website*
>>>
>>>                             	
>>>
>>>                             www.contezza.nl <http://www.contezza.nl>
>>>
>>>                             linkedIn
>>>                             <http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tsmalik/>
>>>
>>>                             	
>>>
>>>                             Twitter <http://twitter.com/tahirshazad/>
>>>
>>>                             *From:*Axel Faust
>>>                             *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2016 12:48PM
>>>                             *To:* Ootb-hive
>>>                             *Cc:*
>>>                             *Subject:* [OOTB-hive] [ADDONS] What do
>>>                             we want from an Order-managed addon listing?
>>>
>>>                                 Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>                                 as our previous ADDONS mailing list
>>>                                 was closed due to inactivity, it is
>>>                                 time to contemplate the state /
>>>                                 future of the committees work.
>>>
>>>
>>>                                 Initially, the committee was set up
>>>                                 to compose, review and manage a list
>>>                                 of Community addons / tools that we
>>>                                 as the Order can recommend to users
>>>                                 of Alfresco either because they fit
>>>                                 a very specific niche of features,
>>>                                 are qualitatively exception or
>>>                                 simplify specific use cases
>>>                                 immensely. In comming up with a
>>>                                 process / guideline to review and
>>>                                 accept addons in such a list we had
>>>                                 some discussions about criteria but
>>>                                 little concrete progress was made.
>>>                                 At some point I started to compile a
>>>                                 draft criteria catalogue
>>>                                 (https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/wiki/Inclusion-criteria-overview
>>>                                 <https://github.com/OrderOfTheBee/addons/wiki/Inclusion-criteria-overview>)
>>>                                 to help me structure my ideas and be
>>>                                 used as a concrete basis for
>>>                                 additional debate. Response had been
>>>                                 mixed, I created two addon reviews
>>>                                 as showcases and asked others to try
>>>                                 and use the catalogue for their own
>>>                                 reviews to gather feedback as well
>>>                                 as input for potential changes (both
>>>                                 detail or general direction).
>>>
>>>                                 Since then, nothing has really
>>>                                 happened in the committee. For me it
>>>                                 became clear that I could do little
>>>                                 to encourage others to either try
>>>                                 their hand at a review or come up
>>>                                 with a concrete counter-proposal of
>>>                                 how we want to go about compiling a
>>>                                 list. Additionally, I was burdened
>>>                                 with a higher load at work and
>>>                                 didn't really find the time to
>>>                                 continue doing reviews by myself,
>>>                                 and neither wanted to since doing
>>>                                 stuff unilaterally defeats the
>>>                                 purpose of a committee / the Order.
>>>                                 I am confident I can rectify my
>>>                                 problem with the work load now that
>>>                                 there'll be a couple changes in my
>>>                                 work life. But engagement by other
>>>                                 members is still crucial and
>>>                                 initiative has yet to been
>>>                                 demonstrated in this particular area.
>>>
>>>                                 My question(s) to you now:
>>>
>>>                                   * Do we still (want to) consider
>>>                                     it an objective of the Order of
>>>                                     the Bee, to compile a list of
>>>                                     addons / tools that have been
>>>                                     qualitatively evaluated (in some
>>>                                     sort), and to have that list
>>>                                     provide added value over what is
>>>                                     already provided by
>>>                                     addons.alfresco.com
>>>                                     <http://addons.alfresco.com> or
>>>                                     any potential tool that may be
>>>                                     introduced with the new
>>>                                     community platform?
>>>                                   * How do we want to go about
>>>                                     compiling such a list?
>>>                                     And here I don't mean minute
>>>                                     details (GitHub issues vs.
>>>                                     whatever task listing), but
>>>                                     questions about "output
>>>                                     artifacts" (what is part of the
>>>                                     listing), "inclusion criteria",
>>>                                     "distribution of effort",
>>>                                     "committment to review schedule
>>>                                     / targets"
>>>                                   * Who wants to (regularily) take
>>>                                     part in addons-related
>>>                                     activities within the Order (and
>>>                                     hasn't previously been aware of
>>>                                     what you could do)?
>>>
>>>                                 Regards
>>>
>>>                                 Axel
>>>
>>>                                 _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
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>>>                             <https://www.linkedin.com/company/contezza-informatiemanagement> or
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>>>
>>>                             _______________________________________________
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>>>                 -- 
>>>
>>>                 Douglas C. R. Paes
>>>
>>>                 Follow Contezza on LinkedIn
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>>>                 Twitter <https://twitter.com/contezzaim>!
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>>
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