Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
Hi Cows, We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon. https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces<https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign> Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them. manchesterlaces.co.uk I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training. X
I support the stance. However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign> Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them. manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
Re the name change.... noooooo way. I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%. Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ....on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West. I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name??? Wendle xx On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign> Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them. manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take. BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo... T x On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ....on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West. I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign> Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them. manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
-- *Turiya Pearce-Smith* Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive. On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity. Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might. Cheers Frances On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ....on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
If we weren’t going to change it, asking might seem tokenistic ? On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 11:55, Frances Topham Smallwood via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive.
On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity.
Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might.
Cheers Frances
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ....on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
Hey cow pals, As a newish member to the club, I’m aware I might not be on the same page re the Cowgirls name and its significance, but I can see the appeal of changing it and would support that move. I think as a club we want to avoid, as best we can, any feeling of exclusion, and trying to show inclusivity in the name would be a small step to show the club’s existing ethos. Personally, I quite like the name Cowfolk as a sort of subversion of the cowboy/cowgirl stereotype. Could we use Cowfolk in place of Cowgirls? I also like Jo’s suggestion of Cowgxrls (personally, I don’t think the ‘x’ will cause confusion). There was also mention above about the history of the Cowgirls name within the club – I’m afraid I’m not familiar with the history, but am keen to learn! Cara On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 12:26, Josie Giblin via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
It’s difficult too, because there may be people who we absolutely would have in the club, but who saw the name and thought “well I’m not a girl...” and were put off. We’re never going to be able to ask their thoughts, only those who weren’t put off, which is a bit of a biased sample.
But this is all theoretical... it might be that no one has ever been put off by it.
I’m honestly a bit sat on the fence, I don’t feel strongly that we have to change the name, but I am keen to hear if anyone comes up with a bright idea that might work well for everyone!
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Rona A <rona.aldridge@gmail.com> *Sent: *17 November 2022 12:04 *To: *Frances Topham Smallwood <ftophamsmallwood@gmail.com> *Cc: *Josie Giblin <giblin.jo@gmail.com>; easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
If we weren’t going to change it, asking might seem tokenistic ?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 11:55, Frances Topham Smallwood via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive.
On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity.
Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might.
Cheers
Frances
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ...on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
Just to add in a bit on the history of the name, as we've just recently written it up for the tourney... The origin of the Easton Cowboys and Cowgirls Sports and Social Club (ECCSSC), as it is nowadays called, was the Easton Cowboys football team in 1992 - which was a bunch of punky lefty mates who drank together and started playing footy, then affiliated themselves to the Plough. The name came from the fact that a few of them liked westerns, nowt more in-depth than that. The team grew and a few of the players' girlfriends started coming to tours and wanted to give it a go, and so the Cowgirls were born. There wasn't that much thought therefore put into the name. A few years ago we voted to change the name of our website domain and email addresses, which were still eastoncowboys.org.uk. Rather than eastoncowboysandcowgirls.org.uk we went for the shorter and more inclusive eastoncowfolk.org.uk. So this isn't the official name of the club, although a lot of people use it for simplicity. In fact, there was a significant backlash from some of the older members about any suggestion of changing the clubs name at the time, even though it was just for the website domain. So it is definitely an emotive issue for some people. In my personal opinion, I think it would be great if people put the same passion into the club living up to its ethos of being "*anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-fascist, anti-homophobic and anti-transphobic* <https://eastoncowfolk.org.uk/welcome/>" as they do into a name which was decided on a whim 25 years ago in very different times. But I hear both sides of this argument and will remain in my usual place on the fence for now. To add a couple of alternative points on the issue of staying true to the history of club - that history also includes it being a radical, progressive collective which is not afraid to shake things up in the name of progress. Change is also part of the club - I've been told many times that the original (albeit maybe unofficial) motto of the club was "no cops, no jugglers, no christians" - while some of the members might still hold true to that sentiment, times have changed and it's definitely not bandied around anymore. Sally Fucking Wood On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 13:36, C M via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hey cow pals,
As a newish member to the club, I’m aware I might not be on the same page re the Cowgirls name and its significance, but I can see the appeal of changing it and would support that move. I think as a club we want to avoid, as best we can, any feeling of exclusion, and trying to show inclusivity in the name would be a small step to show the club’s existing ethos.
Personally, I quite like the name Cowfolk as a sort of subversion of the cowboy/cowgirl stereotype. Could we use Cowfolk in place of Cowgirls? I also like Jo’s suggestion of Cowgxrls (personally, I don’t think the ‘x’ will cause confusion).
There was also mention above about the history of the Cowgirls name within the club – I’m afraid I’m not familiar with the history, but am keen to learn!
Cara
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 12:26, Josie Giblin via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
It’s difficult too, because there may be people who we absolutely would have in the club, but who saw the name and thought “well I’m not a girl...” and were put off. We’re never going to be able to ask their thoughts, only those who weren’t put off, which is a bit of a biased sample.
But this is all theoretical... it might be that no one has ever been put off by it.
I’m honestly a bit sat on the fence, I don’t feel strongly that we have to change the name, but I am keen to hear if anyone comes up with a bright idea that might work well for everyone!
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Rona A <rona.aldridge@gmail.com> *Sent: *17 November 2022 12:04 *To: *Frances Topham Smallwood <ftophamsmallwood@gmail.com> *Cc: *Josie Giblin <giblin.jo@gmail.com>; easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
If we weren’t going to change it, asking might seem tokenistic ?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 11:55, Frances Topham Smallwood via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive.
On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity.
Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might.
Cheers
Frances
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ...on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
People are expressing a desire to be anti-transphobic and anti-sexist. So they are in fact doing exactly what you want, albeit in relation to a name. However, removing the term women or girls is emotive for many, for lots of reasons. Particularly related to the patriarchal society we still live in. Let’s not forget, we are not equal in gender either. We are a women’s football team who are welcoming to our NB friends. We are not a gender neutral team. That’s a whole other discussion to be had perhaps but that would open us up to cis men and I assume we don’t want to do that. On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 17:51, Sally Wood via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Just to add in a bit on the history of the name, as we've just recently written it up for the tourney...
The origin of the Easton Cowboys and Cowgirls Sports and Social Club (ECCSSC), as it is nowadays called, was the Easton Cowboys football team in 1992 - which was a bunch of punky lefty mates who drank together and started playing footy, then affiliated themselves to the Plough. The name came from the fact that a few of them liked westerns, nowt more in-depth than that. The team grew and a few of the players' girlfriends started coming to tours and wanted to give it a go, and so the Cowgirls were born. There wasn't that much thought therefore put into the name.
A few years ago we voted to change the name of our website domain and email addresses, which were still eastoncowboys.org.uk. Rather than eastoncowboysandcowgirls.org.uk we went for the shorter and more inclusive eastoncowfolk.org.uk. So this isn't the official name of the club, although a lot of people use it for simplicity. In fact, there was a significant backlash from some of the older members about any suggestion of changing the clubs name at the time, even though it was just for the website domain. So it is definitely an emotive issue for some people.
In my personal opinion, I think it would be great if people put the same passion into the club living up to its ethos of being "*anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-fascist, anti-homophobic and anti-transphobic* <https://eastoncowfolk.org.uk/welcome/>" as they do into a name which was decided on a whim 25 years ago in very different times. But I hear both sides of this argument and will remain in my usual place on the fence for now.
To add a couple of alternative points on the issue of staying true to the history of club - that history also includes it being a radical, progressive collective which is not afraid to shake things up in the name of progress. Change is also part of the club - I've been told many times that the original (albeit maybe unofficial) motto of the club was "no cops, no jugglers, no christians" - while some of the members might still hold true to that sentiment, times have changed and it's definitely not bandied around anymore.
Sally Fucking Wood
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 13:36, C M via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hey cow pals,
As a newish member to the club, I’m aware I might not be on the same page re the Cowgirls name and its significance, but I can see the appeal of changing it and would support that move. I think as a club we want to avoid, as best we can, any feeling of exclusion, and trying to show inclusivity in the name would be a small step to show the club’s existing ethos.
Personally, I quite like the name Cowfolk as a sort of subversion of the cowboy/cowgirl stereotype. Could we use Cowfolk in place of Cowgirls? I also like Jo’s suggestion of Cowgxrls (personally, I don’t think the ‘x’ will cause confusion).
There was also mention above about the history of the Cowgirls name within the club – I’m afraid I’m not familiar with the history, but am keen to learn!
Cara
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 12:26, Josie Giblin via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
It’s difficult too, because there may be people who we absolutely would have in the club, but who saw the name and thought “well I’m not a girl...” and were put off. We’re never going to be able to ask their thoughts, only those who weren’t put off, which is a bit of a biased sample.
But this is all theoretical... it might be that no one has ever been put off by it.
I’m honestly a bit sat on the fence, I don’t feel strongly that we have to change the name, but I am keen to hear if anyone comes up with a bright idea that might work well for everyone!
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Rona A <rona.aldridge@gmail.com> *Sent: *17 November 2022 12:04 *To: *Frances Topham Smallwood <ftophamsmallwood@gmail.com> *Cc: *Josie Giblin <giblin.jo@gmail.com>; easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
If we weren’t going to change it, asking might seem tokenistic ?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 11:55, Frances Topham Smallwood via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive.
On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity.
Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might.
Cheers
Frances
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ...on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
I am proud to be a trans and non binary friend and ally and to be part of this amazing club. I am also proud to be a woman, a gay one at that. It seems like she/her/woman are all dirty words currently and this makes me sad as women have to deal with so much adversity as it is throughout history. Being taught from a young age to be quiet, to be subdued, to be subservient, to be second class, to be weak, to be inferior....to be pushed down and shat on in sports (from a great height), glass ceilings at work etc etc, etc etc. No thanks. My strength as a woman, warrior, queen, bad ass bitch is my own personal identity. Playing for a women's club that is inclusive to trans and non binary in solidarity is lush. I am proud to be a rogue, a gobshite and I an Easton Cowgirl. I don't want to be eradicated because I identify as a woman, that is my strength. Wendle xx On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 18:02 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
People are expressing a desire to be anti-transphobic and anti-sexist. So they are in fact doing exactly what you want, albeit in relation to a name. However, removing the term women or girls is emotive for many, for lots of reasons. Particularly related to the patriarchal society we still live in. Let’s not forget, we are not equal in gender either.
We are a women’s football team who are welcoming to our NB friends. We are not a gender neutral team. That’s a whole other discussion to be had perhaps but that would open us up to cis men and I assume we don’t want to do that.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 17:51, Sally Wood via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Just to add in a bit on the history of the name, as we've just recently written it up for the tourney...
The origin of the Easton Cowboys and Cowgirls Sports and Social Club (ECCSSC), as it is nowadays called, was the Easton Cowboys football team in 1992 - which was a bunch of punky lefty mates who drank together and started playing footy, then affiliated themselves to the Plough. The name came from the fact that a few of them liked westerns, nowt more in-depth than that. The team grew and a few of the players' girlfriends started coming to tours and wanted to give it a go, and so the Cowgirls were born. There wasn't that much thought therefore put into the name.
A few years ago we voted to change the name of our website domain and email addresses, which were still eastoncowboys.org.uk. Rather than eastoncowboysandcowgirls.org.uk we went for the shorter and more inclusive eastoncowfolk.org.uk. So this isn't the official name of the club, although a lot of people use it for simplicity. In fact, there was a significant backlash from some of the older members about any suggestion of changing the clubs name at the time, even though it was just for the website domain. So it is definitely an emotive issue for some people.
In my personal opinion, I think it would be great if people put the same passion into the club living up to its ethos of being "*anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-fascist, anti-homophobic and anti-transphobic* <https://eastoncowfolk.org.uk/welcome/>" as they do into a name which was decided on a whim 25 years ago in very different times. But I hear both sides of this argument and will remain in my usual place on the fence for now.
To add a couple of alternative points on the issue of staying true to the history of club - that history also includes it being a radical, progressive collective which is not afraid to shake things up in the name of progress. Change is also part of the club - I've been told many times that the original (albeit maybe unofficial) motto of the club was "no cops, no jugglers, no christians" - while some of the members might still hold true to that sentiment, times have changed and it's definitely not bandied around anymore.
Sally Fucking Wood
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 13:36, C M via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hey cow pals,
As a newish member to the club, I’m aware I might not be on the same page re the Cowgirls name and its significance, but I can see the appeal of changing it and would support that move. I think as a club we want to avoid, as best we can, any feeling of exclusion, and trying to show inclusivity in the name would be a small step to show the club’s existing ethos.
Personally, I quite like the name Cowfolk as a sort of subversion of the cowboy/cowgirl stereotype. Could we use Cowfolk in place of Cowgirls? I also like Jo’s suggestion of Cowgxrls (personally, I don’t think the ‘x’ will cause confusion).
There was also mention above about the history of the Cowgirls name within the club – I’m afraid I’m not familiar with the history, but am keen to learn!
Cara
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 12:26, Josie Giblin via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
It’s difficult too, because there may be people who we absolutely would have in the club, but who saw the name and thought “well I’m not a girl...” and were put off. We’re never going to be able to ask their thoughts, only those who weren’t put off, which is a bit of a biased sample.
But this is all theoretical... it might be that no one has ever been put off by it.
I’m honestly a bit sat on the fence, I don’t feel strongly that we have to change the name, but I am keen to hear if anyone comes up with a bright idea that might work well for everyone!
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Rona A <rona.aldridge@gmail.com> *Sent: *17 November 2022 12:04 *To: *Frances Topham Smallwood <ftophamsmallwood@gmail.com> *Cc: *Josie Giblin <giblin.jo@gmail.com>; easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
If we weren’t going to change it, asking might seem tokenistic ?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 11:55, Frances Topham Smallwood via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive.
On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity.
Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might.
Cheers
Frances
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ...on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
The article Wendy posted in lolchat has definitely put me off something like cowgxrls (for those not on lolchat, it discusses problematic issues with phrases like womxn). But I just want to guage what people feel about something like Easton Cowgirls+? Do people think something along these lines feels like erasure of women and the long hard history of women's football? Or does it reflect women and inclusivity? To be clear, I'm not trying to push cowgirls+ as the answer (not sure how good it is really) but interested to know if people would be open to a change along these lines? Or if its the principal of changing it all that feels wrong? On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 18:21 Woo Hall via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I am proud to be a trans and non binary friend and ally and to be part of this amazing club.
I am also proud to be a woman, a gay one at that. It seems like she/her/woman are all dirty words currently and this makes me sad as women have to deal with so much adversity as it is throughout history. Being taught from a young age to be quiet, to be subdued, to be subservient, to be second class, to be weak, to be inferior....to be pushed down and shat on in sports (from a great height), glass ceilings at work etc etc, etc etc.
No thanks.
My strength as a woman, warrior, queen, bad ass bitch is my own personal identity. Playing for a women's club that is inclusive to trans and non binary in solidarity is lush.
I am proud to be a rogue, a gobshite and I an Easton Cowgirl. I don't want to be eradicated because I identify as a woman, that is my strength.
Wendle xx
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 18:02 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
People are expressing a desire to be anti-transphobic and anti-sexist. So they are in fact doing exactly what you want, albeit in relation to a name. However, removing the term women or girls is emotive for many, for lots of reasons. Particularly related to the patriarchal society we still live in. Let’s not forget, we are not equal in gender either.
We are a women’s football team who are welcoming to our NB friends. We are not a gender neutral team. That’s a whole other discussion to be had perhaps but that would open us up to cis men and I assume we don’t want to do that.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 17:51, Sally Wood via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Just to add in a bit on the history of the name, as we've just recently written it up for the tourney...
The origin of the Easton Cowboys and Cowgirls Sports and Social Club (ECCSSC), as it is nowadays called, was the Easton Cowboys football team in 1992 - which was a bunch of punky lefty mates who drank together and started playing footy, then affiliated themselves to the Plough. The name came from the fact that a few of them liked westerns, nowt more in-depth than that. The team grew and a few of the players' girlfriends started coming to tours and wanted to give it a go, and so the Cowgirls were born. There wasn't that much thought therefore put into the name.
A few years ago we voted to change the name of our website domain and email addresses, which were still eastoncowboys.org.uk. Rather than eastoncowboysandcowgirls.org.uk we went for the shorter and more inclusive eastoncowfolk.org.uk. So this isn't the official name of the club, although a lot of people use it for simplicity. In fact, there was a significant backlash from some of the older members about any suggestion of changing the clubs name at the time, even though it was just for the website domain. So it is definitely an emotive issue for some people.
In my personal opinion, I think it would be great if people put the same passion into the club living up to its ethos of being "*anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-fascist, anti-homophobic and anti-transphobic* <https://eastoncowfolk.org.uk/welcome/>" as they do into a name which was decided on a whim 25 years ago in very different times. But I hear both sides of this argument and will remain in my usual place on the fence for now.
To add a couple of alternative points on the issue of staying true to the history of club - that history also includes it being a radical, progressive collective which is not afraid to shake things up in the name of progress. Change is also part of the club - I've been told many times that the original (albeit maybe unofficial) motto of the club was "no cops, no jugglers, no christians" - while some of the members might still hold true to that sentiment, times have changed and it's definitely not bandied around anymore.
Sally Fucking Wood
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 13:36, C M via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hey cow pals,
As a newish member to the club, I’m aware I might not be on the same page re the Cowgirls name and its significance, but I can see the appeal of changing it and would support that move. I think as a club we want to avoid, as best we can, any feeling of exclusion, and trying to show inclusivity in the name would be a small step to show the club’s existing ethos.
Personally, I quite like the name Cowfolk as a sort of subversion of the cowboy/cowgirl stereotype. Could we use Cowfolk in place of Cowgirls? I also like Jo’s suggestion of Cowgxrls (personally, I don’t think the ‘x’ will cause confusion).
There was also mention above about the history of the Cowgirls name within the club – I’m afraid I’m not familiar with the history, but am keen to learn!
Cara
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 12:26, Josie Giblin via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
It’s difficult too, because there may be people who we absolutely would have in the club, but who saw the name and thought “well I’m not a girl...” and were put off. We’re never going to be able to ask their thoughts, only those who weren’t put off, which is a bit of a biased sample.
But this is all theoretical... it might be that no one has ever been put off by it.
I’m honestly a bit sat on the fence, I don’t feel strongly that we have to change the name, but I am keen to hear if anyone comes up with a bright idea that might work well for everyone!
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Rona A <rona.aldridge@gmail.com> *Sent: *17 November 2022 12:04 *To: *Frances Topham Smallwood <ftophamsmallwood@gmail.com> *Cc: *Josie Giblin <giblin.jo@gmail.com>; easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
If we weren’t going to change it, asking might seem tokenistic ?
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 11:55, Frances Topham Smallwood via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Totally support earlier comments about trans/nb inclusivity, and I had no idea the fa's rules were so horrible and invasive.
On the name, I'm in favour of keeping the cowgirls name for the same reasons people have mentioned above. We already have cowfolk as the name for the overall club which I think goes some way to signalling it's inclusivity.
Can we ask our trans/non binary players what they think of the name? Or would that be putting them on the spot too much? That way we'd have more info on whether people actually feel excluded by it, or we just worry that they might.
Cheers
Frances
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, 14:44 Josie Giblin via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I agree with comments before – 100% behind inclusivity, and 100% agree with the connection to womens football and our fight to play and be taken seriously as footballers. But I just want to chuck in some thoughts...
what’s brought up this discussion was the fact that trans and non-binary folk are still struggling and having to fight to play in our leagues. And although the casual league is miles ahead of the FAs archaic stance, there have still been incidents with trans and NB players facing discrimination from other players. For those reasons, I’m interested to hear suggestions of how we could not so much totally change our name, but maybe adapt it to reflect our inclusivity... while “girls” doesn’t exclusively mean cis women, it might not capture everyone, particularly some NB folk.
The only ideas I’ve had so far were Easton Cowgxrls (which was highlighted as maybe losing the language too much, and to be fair is a linguistical mess), and Easton Cowgirls+ (maybe this one is a bit confusing). I’ve got no other ideas yet! I’m curious to hear if anyone has an idea that can still reflect the importance of women’s football, but give an inclusive nod to those who don’t consider themselves a girl
Jo x
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
*From: *Turiya Pearce-Smith via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Sent: *17 November 2022 10:51 *To: *Woo Hall <woohall77@gmail.com> *Cc: *easton cowgirls group <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> *Subject: *Re: [Easton-Cowgirls] Feedback from a cowmmittee meeting
My ten cents - at an amateur level the FA's requirements on trans players are ridiculously insensitive and serve to exclude many people from the grassroots game, aka I definitely agree that we as a club should take a stance against it. I equally strongly feel we should stick to our identity as a diverse, inclusive, trans-inclusive women's football club, because for me the women's game itself and the awesome sisterhood that comes with it is something really special, that's my personal take.
BTW here's a link to download the FA Policy, for context https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/suffolkfa/files/the-fa-policy-on-trans-peo...
T x
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 22:14, Woo Hall via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Re the name change.... noooooo way.
I fully embrace inclusivity, accessibility and solidarity with trans and non binary players 100%.
Although I do not support ridding ourselves of our 'Cowgirl' name, our very connection to 'women's football' ...on the back of a history of women being banned from playing football, only progressing now in developed countries in the West.
I am proud as a woman to be part of a generation that see's women/girls/us in sport actually being taken seriously. Why would we change our name???
Wendle xx
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022, 21:50 Rona A via football-women, < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
I support the stance.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with changing our name. We should be inclusive, but we don’t need to eradicate the use of the term ‘girls’ or ‘women’ to do so. Women/ girls is not an excluding term
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 17:28, Lizzie Winter via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Hi Cows,
We had a cowmittee meeting last night because Manchester Laces have asked for our support in their stance against the current FA policy regarding trans players. We submitted our support and will hopefully be on their website soon.
https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign
Trans Equality Campaign — Manchester Laces <https://manchesterlaces.co.uk/campaign>
Charlton invicta fc. Charlton Invicta support trans inclusion in sport aligned with each person’s gender. Additionally, Non-binary folk are either being totally excluded or forced to play as a gender that is illegitimate to them.
manchesterlaces.co.uk
I've attached the minutes so have a read and let me know what you think and we can discuss it at our next meeting/after training.
X
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
--
*Turiya Pearce-Smith*
Mobile: +44 777 988 5947
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
Dear all, Sorry to step in the conversation from out of the blue (wasnt aware of the discussion and catching up now) and sorry again if this may come across as inappropriate, but I cant resist speaking my opinion, so... honestly: is it a change in name that makes the difference? Has anyone ever joined the Cowgirls cause of the team name? (and if we really want to talk about this: who actually identify as a "girl" anyway? Personally, even when age allowed I was too confused and scared of my future as a gay person to be a "girl", nowadays I am happy to be a "woman" or a "lesbian" but surely if I am named a "cowgirl" it is with a good dose of irony - and I thought the other "girls" in the team could see the irony too) I voted for trans women to join the team and I am proud we took this decision. I am also realistic the matter is not settled for good (is ever anything?) and chances are, sadly, that transphobic behaviour will happen occasionally and if it does, we must be there to listen, help, heal and improve (and I am confident we can do this as we done before for example tackling homophobic remarks or racial stereotypes). But do we prove ourselves by a change in name? (Or put it another way: is this true effort or is it performative?) And if some team members feel emotional about the change, is it worth it? Times are not good (just from recent news, look what's going on with the US Republicans, new PM in Italy, protests in Iran, world cup in Qatar, etc.) is it a good idea to spend energies and erode friendships about cowgirls/ cowgirls+/ cowgxrls? I know words are important but I am genuinely worried we may end up like those lefties of the 70s who had endless discussions on whether they were "Marxists" or "Leninists" or "Trozkists" or "Maoists" while Reagan and Tatchers and the Chicago School of Economics were taking power, and 50 years later here we are across Europe with much more inequality, much less social mobility, and nobody who can fucking remember what was the difference between the Leninists and the Maoists. So, long story short: the name can be changed or not (I think it's fine, but hey! I barely play anyway) but I'd rather we focused energies in sticking together and taking good care of one another (and the world, for what we can). Sorry for long email Love Granny Gran Fran (formerly known as Filthy Franny Fran Fran)
Yes Filthy Granny Fran Fran (see what I did there?!)! You have put into words what I have been meaning to write but haven't yet managed to do. Thank you. I absolutely agree with this. I am most certainly not a girl, but I absolutely stand proud as a Cowgirl. I have serious issues with the letter changing in words, as I think it risks over-simplifying something that takes learning, practice, listening, changing behaviours etc - inclusion is a process. All the cow love, Becs On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 22:07, francesca pianosi via football-women < football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote:
Dear all,
Sorry to step in the conversation from out of the blue (wasnt aware of the discussion and catching up now) and sorry again if this may come across as inappropriate, but I cant resist speaking my opinion, so... honestly: is it a change in name that makes the difference?
Has anyone ever joined the Cowgirls cause of the team name?
(and if we really want to talk about this: who actually identify as a "girl" anyway? Personally, even when age allowed I was too confused and scared of my future as a gay person to be a "girl", nowadays I am happy to be a "woman" or a "lesbian" but surely if I am named a "cowgirl" it is with a good dose of irony - and I thought the other "girls" in the team could see the irony too)
I voted for trans women to join the team and I am proud we took this decision. I am also realistic the matter is not settled for good (is ever anything?) and chances are, sadly, that transphobic behaviour will happen occasionally and if it does, we must be there to listen, help, heal and improve (and I am confident we can do this as we done before for example tackling homophobic remarks or racial stereotypes).
But do we prove ourselves by a change in name?
(Or put it another way: is this true effort or is it performative?)
And if some team members feel emotional about the change, is it worth it?
Times are not good (just from recent news, look what's going on with the US Republicans, new PM in Italy, protests in Iran, world cup in Qatar, etc.) is it a good idea to spend energies and erode friendships about cowgirls/ cowgirls+/ cowgxrls?
I know words are important but I am genuinely worried we may end up like those lefties of the 70s who had endless discussions on whether they were "Marxists" or "Leninists" or "Trozkists" or "Maoists" while Reagan and Tatchers and the Chicago School of Economics were taking power, and 50 years later here we are across Europe with much more inequality, much less social mobility, and nobody who can fucking remember what was the difference between the Leninists and the Maoists.
So, long story short: the name can be changed or not (I think it's fine, but hey! I barely play anyway) but I'd rather we focused energies in sticking together and taking good care of one another (and the world, for what we can).
Sorry for long email
Love
Granny Gran Fran (formerly known as Filthy Franny Fran Fran)
_______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
I also agree with Fran. Don't forget the name of our club references a group of people who committed genocide of native Americans in the US but I think it should stay the same because it represents so much in our little corner of Bristol. On Monday, 21 November 2022, 09:49:41 GMT, Becs Swist via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote: Yes Filthy Granny Fran Fran (see what I did there?!)! You have put into words what I have been meaning to write but haven't yet managed to do. Thank you.I absolutely agree with this. I am most certainly not a girl, but I absolutely stand proud as a Cowgirl. I have serious issues with the letter changing in words, as I think it risks over-simplifying something that takes learning, practice, listening, changing behaviours etc - inclusion is a process.All the cow love,Becs On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 22:07, francesca pianosi via football-women <football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk> wrote: Dear all, Sorry to step in the conversation from out of the blue (wasnt aware of the discussion and catching up now) and sorry again if this may come across as inappropriate, but I cant resist speaking my opinion, so... honestly: is it a change in name that makes the difference? Has anyone ever joined the Cowgirls cause of the team name? (and if we really want to talk about this: who actually identify as a "girl" anyway? Personally, even when age allowed I was too confused and scared of my future as a gay person to be a "girl", nowadays I am happy to be a "woman" or a "lesbian" but surely if I am named a "cowgirl" it is with a good dose of irony - and I thought the other "girls" in the team could see the irony too) I voted for trans women to join the team and I am proud we took this decision. I am also realistic the matter is not settled for good (is ever anything?) and chances are, sadly, that transphobic behaviour will happen occasionally and if it does, we must be there to listen, help, heal and improve (and I am confident we can do this as we done before for example tackling homophobic remarks or racial stereotypes). But do we prove ourselves by a change in name? (Or put it another way: is this true effort or is it performative?) And if some team members feel emotional about the change, is it worth it? Times are not good (just from recent news, look what's going on with the US Republicans, new PM in Italy, protests in Iran, world cup in Qatar, etc.) is it a good idea to spend energies and erode friendships about cowgirls/ cowgirls+/ cowgxrls? I know words are important but I am genuinely worried we may end up like those lefties of the 70s who had endless discussions on whether they were "Marxists" or "Leninists" or "Trozkists" or "Maoists" while Reagan and Tatchers and the Chicago School of Economics were taking power, and 50 years later here we are across Europe with much more inequality, much less social mobility, and nobody who can fucking remember what was the difference between the Leninists and the Maoists. So, long story short: the name can be changed or not (I think it's fine, but hey! I barely play anyway) but I'd rather we focused energies in sticking together and taking good care of one another (and the world, for what we can). Sorry for long email Love Granny Gran Fran (formerly known as Filthy Franny Fran Fran) _______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women _______________________________________________ football-women mailing list football-women@eastoncowfolk.org.uk https://lists.xtreamlab.net/mailman/listinfo/football-women
participants (12)
-
Becs Swist -
C M -
Frances Topham Smallwood -
francesca pianosi -
Jo Giblin -
Josie Giblin
-
Lizzie Winter -
Rona A -
Sally Heaven -
Sally Wood -
Turiya Pearce-Smith -
Woo Hall