<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">We don't have unlimited searchable history now with IRC and that isn't important to me, but maybe it is important to others.<div><br></div><div>I guess everyone's experience with any of these tools will vary. I personally have multiple clients actively using Slack to collaborate with me daily. But I recognize not everyone uses Slack. For me personally, I'll create an account on whatever the group chooses and I'll hunt down a link eventually and I'll find you. :) What I'm more concerned about is reducing the friction that less motivated people have to endure to find the group.</div><div><br></div><div>Something that strikes me about Slack is how many open Slack channels there are, especially for developer communities. Here is one list (not all dev focused):</div><div><a href="https://slacklist.info/">https://slacklist.info/</a>. Here is a directory for Discord: <a href="https://discord.me/">https://discord.me/</a>. Not sure if either of those are representative, but each certainly has a distinctive theme.<br></div><div><br></div><div>My thought would be to go where the enterprise users and developers are, and my perception is that is more Slack than Discord.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't think this has to be controversial or require a long, drawn-out evaluation. Once everyone has had their say, put it to a vote, then cutover quickly and move forward.</div><div><br></div><div>Jeff</div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 1:28 PM Axel Faust <<a href="mailto:axel.faust.g@googlemail.com">axel.faust.g@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Thanks Jim for pointing out the download link for desktop apps.
The invite link for Discord has actually been in the
#orderofthebee IRC channel welcome message since at least August
10th. Provided there is an agreement for Discord sometime down the
line, our website would be adapted accordingly.<br>
</p>
<p>Not having unlimited, searchable history was one of the primary
reasons we have not looked at Slack. Additionally, when we looked
at the situation, the Alfresco Discord had already been created
and it looked like a majority or at least a significant subset of
the active users had already made the switch or were willing to
make the switch. This reduced the argument of "having to have yet
another account" as a con. It also turned relying on IRC only to a
potential liability, since it would force that user base to use
multiple tools to keep being part of both communities.</p>
<p>I also totally forgot that there was also an attempt to have an
OOTBee slack (<a class="m_-7298884066169303930moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ootbee.slack.com" target="_blank">https://ootbee.slack.com</a>), which was used primarily
around / shortly after the first BeeCon in 2016.<br>
I am not sure about "the one that everyone is probably already
using anyway: Slack". Same as with Discord, I have had zero
contact with Slack, were it not for our 2016 trial and a lone
customer from outside Germany, and there I have been frequently
annoyed by the message storage limit. I know, with our current
level of activity we are not in danger of reaching that limit in a
reasonable amount of time, but I hesitate to consider the current
level of (non-)activity as the final state, and am also thinking
about potential notifications / integrations from 3rd party
systems inflating that number.<br>
</p>
<p>It was clear from the start that this could be a controversial
suggestion. It was that way back in 2016/2017, and will likely be
that way in 2030, unless some Zuckerberg clone manages to deliver
a platform that succeeds in killing off / suppressing all
alternatives. As always, any alternatives are welcome for
discussion but that requires that somebody (typically the one
proposing a specific alternative) step up and do the legwork for
an evaluation.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-7298884066169303930moz-cite-prefix">On 14/09/2018 18:29, Jim Tomonto wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
There is a Mac app for Discord (just not in the app store) <a href="https://discordapp.com/download" target="_blank">https://discordapp.com/download</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On the Mac App you just select the channel ->
right click -> Invite People and then you are off to the
races.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Discord did start with gamers but has gotten real
traction in the Blockchain/Crypto space. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The cool thing with Discord is that the free tier
has unlimited storage for each user locally to see the
history. Slack requires you to pay once you exceed the
dreaded history limit (which happens pretty quickly on most
channels).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jim</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Jim Tomonto</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Sep 14, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Jeff Potts
<<a href="mailto:jeffpotts01@gmail.com" target="_blank">jeffpotts01@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_-7298884066169303930Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">When I first heard that some
folks were using Discord I tried to figure out how to
access it and was totally flummoxed. I couldn't find
an invite link and didn't want to bother anyone. I
ended up giving up. If we were to switch entirely to
Discord, would people still need to hunt down an
invite link? How will the community figure out how to
find us?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Is there a MacOS app for Discord
(didn't see one in the app store) or must I use
yet another browser window to keep it open? (Slack
has a nice desktop app, for example).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is frustrating to have to go create
another account for another service that I will
only use for Alfresco stuff. Also, what's with the
gamer iconography everywhere? Strange!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IRC is free and open, has a variety of
apps for all platforms, and does its job
sufficiently well. I didn't see any concerns about
IRC that couldn't be addressed. But, if we can't
stay on IRC, and if we're going to move to a
non-open source product, why wouldn't we move to
the one that everyone is probably already using
anyway: Slack.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 6:11
AM Axel Faust <<a href="mailto:axel.faust.g@googlemail.com" target="_blank">axel.faust.g@googlemail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>A quick follow up: To show that the
Discord server is still in evaluation and even I
have yet to learn more about it, I accidentally
included the wrong invite link in my last email.
If you want to check out the Discord server,
please use <a class="m_-7298884066169303930m_-5216182663926285329moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://discord.gg/wEvSqDG" target="_blank">https://discord.gg/wEvSqDG</a>
instead.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-7298884066169303930m_-5216182663926285329moz-cite-prefix">On
14/09/2018 13:07, Axel Faust wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>in his last mail to this list,
Younes has mentioned that we as the Board have
been looking into improvements of the internal
communication. One aspect of this is that we
have setup a Discord "server" for the Order of
the Bee, created various rooms and played with
/ implemented some integrations. All of this
was done as an evaluation or at least an
interim solution (with regards to how the new
Board communicates among its members), but
with this email I want to start the discussion
about this potentially becoming a permanent
solution.</p>
<p>Now, some of you may ask "Why
Discord?" and "Don't we already have an IRC
channel?" / "What about our Mattermost (<a class="m_-7298884066169303930m_-5216182663926285329moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://chat.orderofthebee.org/" target="_blank">https://chat.orderofthebee.org</a>)
server?". So let me give some arguments on why
we have looked at Discord:</p>
<ul>
<li>In IRC we currently have one
public channel on freenode. Some of the
discussions (especially among the board
members) may not fit in that central, public
space. Having the ability to host multiple
channels was also a reason behind the
2016/2017 trial of using Mattermost. This is
also true for Discord, though other than in
Mattermost there is no additional /
superfluous concept of teams that separates
the channels and you don't need to
explicitly add/join to channels, so
accessibility-wise it feels to be slightly
better.</li>
<li>Using Mattermost requires us to
run and maintain our own service on our
infrastructure. Since we currently have
infrastructure sponsored by Magenta Apps,
the cost is not the main concern here, but
the available resources in terms of people
in charge of administration / maintenance.
This was initially covered by the INFRA
committee composed of Marsbard, Daren,
Lanre, and Heiko. But as most of our
committees, the level of activity has
approached near zero over time. As the
board, we felt it would be better to rely on
a free, hosted solution to reduce our
internal effort / dependencies, and allow
any renewed activities in the INFRA
committee (or any successor team /
constellation) to be focused on more
productive tasks.</li>
<li>Our internal Mattermost server
has seen no activity since the 2016/2017
trials, and even then the interaction was
extremely light.</li>
<li>We recognize that Discord is not
open source as opposed to Mattermost. Still,
it is a platform with a proven track record
among open source communities, has a - in my
eyes so far - mostly fair and transparent
business practice, and - most essentially -
provides unlimited chat history in the free
tier.</li>
<li>A significant portion of the
#alfresco IRC channel members have made the
switch to a Alfresco Discord "server"
created by Bhagyas Silva, which may at some
time in the future be designated the
official community channel by Alfresco. By
having our own Discord server, we make it
easier for members of #alfresco to engage in
our organisation as well, without requiring
separate credentials on a disconnected
system.</li>
</ul>
<p>Currently we have the following
channels on Discord:</p>
<ul>
<li>#general: the main channel,
synchronized with IRC via a bot, so that we
can keep the IRC channel alive without
cutting anyone off<br>
</li>
<li>#github-updates: collecting
notifications from GitHub about events on
any repository in the OrderOfTheBee GitHub
organisation</li>
<li>#board: a private channel for
members of the board to discuss / organise
their activities</li>
<li>#support-tools: a channel
dedicated to the OOTBee support tools addon,
which may obsolete / succeed the previously
separate Gitter channel (a custom
integration with GitHub events provides the
same type of notifications we had in Gitter)</li>
<li>#alfresco-irc-bridge: a read-only
channel dedicated to keeping a complete
history of #alfresco on IRC (<a href="http://chat.alfresco.com/" target="_blank">chat.alfresco.com</a>
runs on a private server of Richard Esplin
and may stop to work at any time when alfbot
breaks or Alfresco demands the server be
shut down / moved to a different name)</li>
</ul>
<p>There are also a couple of channels
for specific tests that may come and go, i.e.
a bridge to the Alfresco-internal Slack system
to allow for interaction with Alfresco staff.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>TL;DR: We have set up a Discord
server for evaluation (<a class="m_-7298884066169303930m_-5216182663926285329moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://discord.gg/kbPSjum" target="_blank">https://discord.gg/kbPSjum</a>),
I outlined the reasons why we chose it and
what channels we currently have, and we want
to know your opinions on this subject before
we call for a vote on making it "official".</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards and my apologies for not
being able to write a shorter mail...<br>
</p>
<p>Axel<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
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