[OOTB-hive] Use of / switch to Discord server?

Mon Sep 17 09:21:38 BST 2018

The important thing is that we are talking! ;-)

Il giorno lun 17 set 2018 alle ore 10:08 Angel Borroy <
angel.borroy at keensoft.es> ha scritto:

> This “Discord affair” has attracted more attention than any other
> “relevant” issue in this mail list in the last 2 years...
>
> Angel Borroy
> keen*soft *a *UST **Global *company
>
> email:   angel.borroy at keensoft.es
> web:     http://www.keensoft.es
> móvil:  +34 655 47 47 55
>
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> On 17 September 2018 at 10:06:10, Axel Faust (axel.faust.g at googlemail.com)
> wrote:
>
> I did take a short look at Matrix back when the Discord server for
> #alfresco was created since it came up in discussion back then as well.
> Maybe I made the mistake to focus on the wrong aspects of Matrix, but I
> was turned off by the apparently early / unstable versions of the specs.
> The theory of it is interesting though. If we were to consider using a
> self-hosted service in the OOTBee, I would say it would require that at
> least two people volunteer to become familiar with the tech, and to
> maintain the service. As I mentioned initially, we felt an externally
> hosted service was better (at this time) because we currently do not
> have a consistently active team to deal with this.
>
> Of course even with the backing of someone to take care of it
> technically, we would have to deal with the concerns others have brought
> up, i.e. "yet another account / set of credentials / system I need to use".
>
> With regards to IRC + search history, we currently have a searchable
> history for #alfresco by virtue of chat.alfresco.com + Google, and for
> #orderofthebee via botbot.me + Google. I find myself looking for some
> older conversation on IRC #alfresco once or twice per month when a
> question/topic comes up again either in IRC or the community platform,
> so I can correctly reference what was being talked about.
> Though most may not care about history on #orderofthebee (given that
> there has been very limited to no activity for a while) there may be
> other channels we could set up that do, i.e. if we moved #support-tools
> from Gitter to the new platform to be under one consolidated OOTBee
> roof, or a private #board channel. As Andreas Steffan mentioned on a
> Twitter thread referencing this topic, this of course can be dealt with
> somehow even with Slack, but would require a secondary service managed
> by us (or hosted by another party) where a Slack bot / app sent events.
> If those that already use Slack have a ready-to-use, low maintenance
> option for that, it would be good to know...
>
>
> On 15/09/2018 18:21, Parker, Matthew wrote:
> > At my company, we have been going through this same exercise (i.e.
> looking for chat app for internal dev and ops,) on paper Matrix (with
> Synapse server and Riot.im client) looks good: standardized protocol, open
> source, several clients, sdks, and it can 'bridge' irc, slack and others.
> In short, a open source upgrade to irc and an alternative to the walled
> gardens of slack, hipchat, teams, et al. I stood up server and clients
> yesterday and have been kicking tires. Seems ok. According a recent tweet
> the government of France selected it.
> >
> > But not all that glitters is gold.
> >
> > Did you guys look at this? Aware of any downsides or gotchas?
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: OOTB-hive [ootb-hive-bounces at lists.xtreamlab.net] on behalf of
> Jeff Potts [jeffpotts01 at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 11:39 PM
> > To: Axel Faust
> > Cc: ootb-hive
> > Subject: Re: [OOTB-hive] Use of / switch to Discord server?
> >
> > We don't have unlimited searchable history now with IRC and that isn't
> important to me, but maybe it is important to others.
> >
> > I guess everyone's experience with any of these tools will vary. I
> personally have multiple clients actively using Slack to collaborate with
> me daily. But I recognize not everyone uses Slack. For me personally, I'll
> create an account on whatever the group chooses and I'll hunt down a link
> eventually and I'll find you. :) What I'm more concerned about is reducing
> the friction that less motivated people have to endure to find the group.
> >
> > Something that strikes me about Slack is how many open Slack channels
> there are, especially for developer communities. Here is one list (not all
> dev focused):
> > https://slacklist.info/. Here is a directory for Discord:
> https://discord.me/. Not sure if either of those are representative, but
> each certainly has a distinctive theme.
> >
> > My thought would be to go where the enterprise users and developers are,
> and my perception is that is more Slack than Discord.
> >
> > I don't think this has to be controversial or require a long, drawn-out
> evaluation. Once everyone has had their say, put it to a vote, then cutover
> quickly and move forward.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 1:28 PM Axel Faust <axel.faust.g at googlemail.com
> <mailto:axel.faust.g at googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Jim for pointing out the download link for desktop apps. The
> invite link for Discord has actually been in the #orderofthebee IRC channel
> welcome message since at least August 10th. Provided there is an agreement
> for Discord sometime down the line, our website would be adapted
> accordingly.
> >
> > Not having unlimited, searchable history was one of the primary reasons
> we have not looked at Slack. Additionally, when we looked at the situation,
> the Alfresco Discord had already been created and it looked like a majority
> or at least a significant subset of the active users had already made the
> switch or were willing to make the switch. This reduced the argument of
> "having to have yet another account" as a con. It also turned relying on
> IRC only to a potential liability, since it would force that user base to
> use multiple tools to keep being part of both communities.
> >
> > I also totally forgot that there was also an attempt to have an OOTBee
> slack (https://ootbee.slack.com), which was used primarily around /
> shortly after the first BeeCon in 2016.
> > I am not sure about "the one that everyone is probably already using
> anyway: Slack". Same as with Discord, I have had zero contact with Slack,
> were it not for our 2016 trial and a lone customer from outside Germany,
> and there I have been frequently annoyed by the message storage limit. I
> know, with our current level of activity we are not in danger of reaching
> that limit in a reasonable amount of time, but I hesitate to consider the
> current level of (non-)activity as the final state, and am also thinking
> about potential notifications / integrations from 3rd party systems
> inflating that number.
> >
> > It was clear from the start that this could be a controversial
> suggestion. It was that way back in 2016/2017, and will likely be that way
> in 2030, unless some Zuckerberg clone manages to deliver a platform that
> succeeds in killing off / suppressing all alternatives. As always, any
> alternatives are welcome for discussion but that requires that somebody
> (typically the one proposing a specific alternative) step up and do the
> legwork for an evaluation.
> >
> > On 14/09/2018 18:29, Jim Tomonto wrote:
> > There is a Mac app for Discord (just not in the app store)
> https://discordapp.com/download
> >
> > On the Mac App you just select the channel -> right click -> Invite
> People and then you are off to the races.
> >
> > Discord did start with gamers but has gotten real traction in the
> Blockchain/Crypto space.
> >
> > The cool thing with Discord is that the free tier has unlimited storage
> for each user locally to see the history. Slack requires you to pay once
> you exceed the dreaded history limit (which happens pretty quickly on most
> channels).
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Jim Tomonto
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 14, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Jeff Potts <jeffpotts01 at gmail.com<mailto:
> jeffpotts01 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > When I first heard that some folks were using Discord I tried to figure
> out how to access it and was totally flummoxed. I couldn't find an invite
> link and didn't want to bother anyone. I ended up giving up. If we were to
> switch entirely to Discord, would people still need to hunt down an invite
> link? How will the community figure out how to find us?
> >
> > Is there a MacOS app for Discord (didn't see one in the app store) or
> must I use yet another browser window to keep it open? (Slack has a nice
> desktop app, for example).
> >
> > It is frustrating to have to go create another account for another
> service that I will only use for Alfresco stuff. Also, what's with the
> gamer iconography everywhere? Strange!
> >
> > IRC is free and open, has a variety of apps for all platforms, and does
> its job sufficiently well. I didn't see any concerns about IRC that
> couldn't be addressed. But, if we can't stay on IRC, and if we're going to
> move to a non-open source product, why wouldn't we move to the one that
> everyone is probably already using anyway: Slack.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 6:11 AM Axel Faust <axel.faust.g at googlemail.com
> <mailto:axel.faust.g at googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > A quick follow up: To show that the Discord server is still in
> evaluation and even I have yet to learn more about it, I accidentally
> included the wrong invite link in my last email. If you want to check out
> the Discord server, please use https://discord.gg/wEvSqDG instead.
> >
> > On 14/09/2018 13:07, Axel Faust wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > in his last mail to this list, Younes has mentioned that we as the Board
> have been looking into improvements of the internal communication. One
> aspect of this is that we have setup a Discord "server" for the Order of
> the Bee, created various rooms and played with / implemented some
> integrations. All of this was done as an evaluation or at least an interim
> solution (with regards to how the new Board communicates among its
> members), but with this email I want to start the discussion about this
> potentially becoming a permanent solution.
> >
> > Now, some of you may ask "Why Discord?" and "Don't we already have an
> IRC channel?" / "What about our Mattermost (https://chat.orderofthebee.org
> <https://chat.orderofthebee.org/>) server?". So let me give some
> arguments on why we have looked at Discord:
> >
> > * In IRC we currently have one public channel on freenode. Some of the
> discussions (especially among the board members) may not fit in that
> central, public space. Having the ability to host multiple channels was
> also a reason behind the 2016/2017 trial of using Mattermost. This is also
> true for Discord, though other than in Mattermost there is no additional /
> superfluous concept of teams that separates the channels and you don't need
> to explicitly add/join to channels, so accessibility-wise it feels to be
> slightly better.
> > * Using Mattermost requires us to run and maintain our own service on
> our infrastructure. Since we currently have infrastructure sponsored by
> Magenta Apps, the cost is not the main concern here, but the available
> resources in terms of people in charge of administration / maintenance.
> This was initially covered by the INFRA committee composed of Marsbard,
> Daren, Lanre, and Heiko. But as most of our committees, the level of
> activity has approached near zero over time. As the board, we felt it would
> be better to rely on a free, hosted solution to reduce our internal effort
> / dependencies, and allow any renewed activities in the INFRA committee (or
> any successor team / constellation) to be focused on more productive tasks.
> > * Our internal Mattermost server has seen no activity since the
> 2016/2017 trials, and even then the interaction was extremely light.
> > * We recognize that Discord is not open source as opposed to Mattermost.
> Still, it is a platform with a proven track record among open source
> communities, has a - in my eyes so far - mostly fair and transparent
> business practice, and - most essentially - provides unlimited chat history
> in the free tier.
> > * A significant portion of the #alfresco IRC channel members have made
> the switch to a Alfresco Discord "server" created by Bhagyas Silva, which
> may at some time in the future be designated the official community channel
> by Alfresco. By having our own Discord server, we make it easier for
> members of #alfresco to engage in our organisation as well, without
> requiring separate credentials on a disconnected system.
> >
> > Currently we have the following channels on Discord:
> >
> > * #general: the main channel, synchronized with IRC via a bot, so that
> we can keep the IRC channel alive without cutting anyone off
> > * #github-updates: collecting notifications from GitHub about events on
> any repository in the OrderOfTheBee GitHub organisation
> > * #board: a private channel for members of the board to discuss /
> organise their activities
> > * #support-tools: a channel dedicated to the OOTBee support tools addon,
> which may obsolete / succeed the previously separate Gitter channel (a
> custom integration with GitHub events provides the same type of
> notifications we had in Gitter)
> > * #alfresco-irc-bridge: a read-only channel dedicated to keeping a
> complete history of #alfresco on IRC (chat.alfresco.com<
> http://chat.alfresco.com/> runs on a private server of Richard Esplin and
> may stop to work at any time when alfbot breaks or Alfresco demands the
> server be shut down / moved to a different name)
> >
> > There are also a couple of channels for specific tests that may come and
> go, i.e. a bridge to the Alfresco-internal Slack system to allow for
> interaction with Alfresco staff.
> >
> >
> > TL;DR: We have set up a Discord server for evaluation (
> https://discord.gg/kbPSjum), I outlined the reasons why we chose it and
> what channels we currently have, and we want to know your opinions on this
> subject before we call for a vote on making it "official".
> >
> >
> > Regards and my apologies for not being able to write a shorter mail...
> >
> > Axel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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